Jeff–
Points well worth making. Thanks!

You are in good company with this comment:
(1) The idea that existence is something given, something received as not-deserved, as a debt that must eventually be repaid, can be found in the early Greek philosophers (before Socrates).

(2) Aristotle said that life was the greatest gift.

I find both the preSocratics and Aristotle well worth understanding. And I think Aristotle is right on a lot of things.

I don’t agree with either the preSocratics or Aristotle on this point, however, for the simple reason that there is nothing that first does not have life and then has life. I didn’t exist before conception, and therefore couldn’t be given life. And I had no say in the matter (as opposed to when somebody asks me what gift I would like for Christmas *grin*).

It’s not even that life was thrust upon me, but that I simply live. Heidegger gets at this to some extent with his talk of “thrownness” in Being and Time.

I don’t know what the point of all that was, but there it is :-)

That a being must justify its existence in terms of the relative amounts of what it’s consumed and produced is a fascinating idea. A very capitalist/industrial kind of metaphor.

Since I don’t think anything asked to exist, I don’t think anything has to justify its existence. Rather, I think it’s up to the creators of beings to justify the existence of those beings. Nevertheless, it’s a great thought to roll around. Gets the brain working in a way we philosophers practically live for :-)

Usually when people talk about whether any of us would be here if we got what we deserved, it is in the context of us all being sinners, or all being tainted by original guilt, or some such. You’ve consistently avoided talking about that, which I also find interesting. Thanks for giving me all kinds of interesting things to ponder!

Andrew–

It surely does a heart good to read a bit of humanism now and again. That piece reminds me of William James (my favorite philosopher) in its tone. Thanks!

“I am not going to talk about religious beliefs, but about matters so obvious that it has gone out of style to mention them.

“I believe in my neighbors.

“I know their faults and I know that their virtues far outweigh their faults. Take Father Michael down our road a piece –I’m not of his creed, but I know the goodness and charity and lovingkindness that shine in his daily actions. I believe in Father Mike; if I’m in trouble, I’ll go to him. My next-door neighbor is a veterinary doctor. Doc will get out of bed after a hard day to help a stray cat. No fee — no prospect of a fee. I believe in Doc.

“I believe in my townspeople. You can knock on any door in our town say, ‘I’m hungry,’ and you will be fed. Our town is no exception; I’ve found the same ready charity everywhere. For the one who says, ‘To heck with you — I got mine,’ there are a hundred, a thousand, who will say, ‘Sure, pal, sit down.’

“I know that, despite all warnings against hitchhikers, I can step to the highway, thumb for a ride and in a few minutes a car or a truck will stop and someone will say, ‘Climb in, Mac. How how far you going?’

“I believe in my fellow citizens. Our headlines are splashed with crime, yet for every criminal there are 10,000 honest decent kindly men. If it were not so, no child would live to grow up, business could not go on from day to day. Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries –but it is a force stronger than crime.

“I believe in the patient gallantry of nurses…in the tedious sacrifices of teachers. I believe in the unseen and unending fight against desperate odds that goes on quietly in almost every home in the land.

“I believe in the honest craft of workmen. Take a look around you. There never were enough bosses to check up on all that work. From Independence Hall to the Grand Coulee Dam, these things were built level and square by craftsmen who were honest in their bones.

“I believe that almost all politicians are honest. For every bribed alderman there are hundreds of politicians, low paid or not paid at all, doing their level best without thanks or glory to make our system work. If this were not true, we would never have gotten past the thirteen colonies.

“I believe in Rodger Young. You and I are free today because of endless unnamed heroes from Valley Forge to the Yalu River.

“I believe in — I am proud to belong to — the United States. Despite shortcomings, from lynchings to bad faith in high places, our nation has had the most decent and kindly internal practices and foreign policies to be found anywhere in history.

“And finally, I believe in my whole race. Yellow, white, black, red, brown –in the honesty, courage, intelligence, durability…and goodness…of the overwhelming majority of my brothers and sisters everywhere on this planet. I am proud to be a human being. I believe that we have come this far by the skin of our teeth, that we always make it just by the skin of our teeth –but that we will always make it….survive….endure. I believe that this hairless embryo with the aching, oversize brain case and the opposable thumb, this animal barely up from the apes, will endure –will endure longer than his home planet, will spread out to the other planets, to the stars, and beyond, carrying with him his honesty, his insatiable curiosity, his unlimited courage –and his noble essential decency.

“This I believe with all my heart.”