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	<title>Comments on: Gore Vidal and Family Guy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/16/gore-vidal-and-family-guy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/16/gore-vidal-and-family-guy/</link>
	<description>Philosophy, Politics, Religion, Etc.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Micah Tillman &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Obama and Heigl and Cigarrettes</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/16/gore-vidal-and-family-guy/#comment-2933</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Tillman &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Obama and Heigl and Cigarrettes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=451#comment-2933</guid>
		<description>[...] that reminded me of something Seb said &#8212; in the political context that is this blog &#8212; a little while back about celebrities [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that reminded me of something Seb said &#8212; in the political context that is this blog &#8212; a little while back about celebrities [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Micah Tillman</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/16/gore-vidal-and-family-guy/#comment-2764</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Tillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 01:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=451#comment-2764</guid>
		<description>*laugh*

*pause*

*laugh*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*laugh*</p>
<p>*pause*</p>
<p>*laugh*</p>
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		<title>By: Seb</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/16/gore-vidal-and-family-guy/#comment-2763</link>
		<dc:creator>Seb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 01:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=451#comment-2763</guid>
		<description>On the Kaine-Pawlenty Strategy: I certainly see why you'd assume I was making the classic mistake of "It's OK If People I Like Do It." That does happen &lt;i&gt;way&lt;/i&gt; too often. But, being the cantankerous, daft bugger that I am (heh), I wouldn't be a part of any club that would have me, and always bear in mind Orwell's maxim, "Beware of the true believers."

On the tone: Very sorry if I was testing the Didactic Crank Threshold of your blog. It's never my intention to scare anyone out of the conversation, let alone on their home turf. Have a cup of tea, kick your feet up, think of nebulae for a bit. Peace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the Kaine-Pawlenty Strategy: I certainly see why you&#8217;d assume I was making the classic mistake of &#8220;It&#8217;s OK If People I Like Do It.&#8221; That does happen <i>way</i> too often. But, being the cantankerous, daft bugger that I am (heh), I wouldn&#8217;t be a part of any club that would have me, and always bear in mind Orwell&#8217;s maxim, &#8220;Beware of the true believers.&#8221;</p>
<p>On the tone: Very sorry if I was testing the Didactic Crank Threshold of your blog. It&#8217;s never my intention to scare anyone out of the conversation, let alone on their home turf. Have a cup of tea, kick your feet up, think of nebulae for a bit. Peace.</p>
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		<title>By: Micah Tillman</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/16/gore-vidal-and-family-guy/#comment-2762</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Tillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=451#comment-2762</guid>
		<description>*grin* 

Re name calling: Um . . . . 

Re the Kaine/Pawlenty approach: Perhaps. I thought I was making the point that people I thought you would probably forgive (old school progressives) did things I took you to be claiming were reasons for disowning Buckley (e.g., liking some bad guy or other). 

If Person A can like Person B in spite of Person B's property x, it's hard for me to take seriously Person A's claim that I should dislike Person C for that same property x. It's not impossible -- with a little explanation of why what is ignorable in one case isn't in the other -- but it's hard.

Re tone: I'd rather not turn my blog into a place where I go to get stressed. So forgive me if I suddenly go silent now and again (in the future) instead of responding to some response or other. :-)

Re music: Sweet common ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*grin* </p>
<p>Re name calling: Um . . . . </p>
<p>Re the Kaine/Pawlenty approach: Perhaps. I thought I was making the point that people I thought you would probably forgive (old school progressives) did things I took you to be claiming were reasons for disowning Buckley (e.g., liking some bad guy or other). </p>
<p>If Person A can like Person B in spite of Person B&#8217;s property x, it&#8217;s hard for me to take seriously Person A&#8217;s claim that I should dislike Person C for that same property x. It&#8217;s not impossible &#8212; with a little explanation of why what is ignorable in one case isn&#8217;t in the other &#8212; but it&#8217;s hard.</p>
<p>Re tone: I&#8217;d rather not turn my blog into a place where I go to get stressed. So forgive me if I suddenly go silent now and again (in the future) instead of responding to some response or other. :-)</p>
<p>Re music: Sweet common ground.</p>
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		<title>By: Seb</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/16/gore-vidal-and-family-guy/#comment-2760</link>
		<dc:creator>Seb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=451#comment-2760</guid>
		<description>That Buckley was a hired spook in the '50s is symptomatic of what his principles are and why I found him despicable. He was a vicious anti-Communist, which led him to support not only Francisco Franco, but Joe McCarthy, Efrain Rios Montt, and Henry Kissinger. Of course, I understand that dogmatic adherence to certain ideals leads to seduction by strange bedfellows. While I'm certainly not going to defend or apologize for any misguided progressive's abstract infatuation with fascism, dare I remind you that you just employed the, shall we call it,  &lt;a href="http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/09/lets-all-become-skeptics-now/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Kaine-Pawlenty&lt;/a&gt;  debate strategy you reviled in your post on Skepticism?

The specific Civil Rights Act Buckley opposed, by the way, was the one of 1964, prohibiting discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, and national origin. To his credit, he later admitted his error in once writing op-eds that proclaimed "the White Community... is the advanced race," but... come &lt;i&gt;on&lt;/i&gt;. No extra credit for stuff he should have done in the first place.

On Third Eye Blind: agreed. Unspeakably horrible. Avoid at all costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That Buckley was a hired spook in the &#8217;50s is symptomatic of what his principles are and why I found him despicable. He was a vicious anti-Communist, which led him to support not only Francisco Franco, but Joe McCarthy, Efrain Rios Montt, and Henry Kissinger. Of course, I understand that dogmatic adherence to certain ideals leads to seduction by strange bedfellows. While I&#8217;m certainly not going to defend or apologize for any misguided progressive&#8217;s abstract infatuation with fascism, dare I remind you that you just employed the, shall we call it,  <a href="http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/09/lets-all-become-skeptics-now/" rel="nofollow">Kaine-Pawlenty</a>  debate strategy you reviled in your post on Skepticism?</p>
<p>The specific Civil Rights Act Buckley opposed, by the way, was the one of 1964, prohibiting discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, and national origin. To his credit, he later admitted his error in once writing op-eds that proclaimed &#8220;the White Community&#8230; is the advanced race,&#8221; but&#8230; come <i>on</i>. No extra credit for stuff he should have done in the first place.</p>
<p>On Third Eye Blind: agreed. Unspeakably horrible. Avoid at all costs.</p>
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		<title>By: Micah Tillman</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/16/gore-vidal-and-family-guy/#comment-2759</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Tillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=451#comment-2759</guid>
		<description>On Buckley/Civil Rights: Which Civil Rights Act? There were several. 

On Buckley/Franco: Should we go into how many progressives were enamored with Fascists, Stalin, etc.? And for what did he praise Franco? Grooming? Oratorical skills? Ability to lead?

On Thompson: Don't know what a third eye is, other than that Third Eye Blind is an annoying band. Not sure I want to get involved in that ;-)

On celebrities: :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Buckley/Civil Rights: Which Civil Rights Act? There were several. </p>
<p>On Buckley/Franco: Should we go into how many progressives were enamored with Fascists, Stalin, etc.? And for what did he praise Franco? Grooming? Oratorical skills? Ability to lead?</p>
<p>On Thompson: Don&#8217;t know what a third eye is, other than that Third Eye Blind is an annoying band. Not sure I want to get involved in that ;-)</p>
<p>On celebrities: :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Seb</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/16/gore-vidal-and-family-guy/#comment-2758</link>
		<dc:creator>Seb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=451#comment-2758</guid>
		<description>A different wavelength? Man, I'm on a different &lt;i&gt;spectrum&lt;/i&gt;.

Honestly, McFarlane's politics appear to be pretty sympathetic to mine, but I just can't stand &lt;i&gt;Family Guy&lt;/i&gt;.

The Buckley clip was picked because it happened to involve both aforementioned parties. There are plenty of other clips of Buckley offering a knuckle sandwich to Chomsky, Hitchens, etc. His wit was quick, but he praised Franco and opposed the Civil Rights Act, for crying out loud. He was basically Bill O'Reilly with a posh education &#38; something resembling a sense of humour.

Oh, and do read Thompson. That'll squeegee your third eye sumthin' fierce.

RE: Alicia Keys...
Man, Goldberg is on &lt;i&gt;point&lt;/i&gt;, yo! That was an above-the-fold story on MTVNews.com, like, only four months ago!

Golly, a &lt;a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2146880/" rel="nofollow"&gt;celebrity&lt;/a&gt; who &lt;a href="http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1589159/20080611/usher.jhtml" rel="nofollow"&gt;believes&lt;/a&gt;  in &lt;a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=Of90cKxSeuw" rel="nofollow"&gt;questionable&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href="http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/15/face-the-nation-gingrich-thinks-scotus-gitmo-decision-could-cost-us-a-city/" rel="nofollow"&gt;theories&lt;/a&gt;?  *Yawn* Fancy a cuppa tea, then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A different wavelength? Man, I&#8217;m on a different <i>spectrum</i>.</p>
<p>Honestly, McFarlane&#8217;s politics appear to be pretty sympathetic to mine, but I just can&#8217;t stand <i>Family Guy</i>.</p>
<p>The Buckley clip was picked because it happened to involve both aforementioned parties. There are plenty of other clips of Buckley offering a knuckle sandwich to Chomsky, Hitchens, etc. His wit was quick, but he praised Franco and opposed the Civil Rights Act, for crying out loud. He was basically Bill O&#8217;Reilly with a posh education &amp; something resembling a sense of humour.</p>
<p>Oh, and do read Thompson. That&#8217;ll squeegee your third eye sumthin&#8217; fierce.</p>
<p>RE: Alicia Keys&#8230;<br />
Man, Goldberg is on <i>point</i>, yo! That was an above-the-fold story on MTVNews.com, like, only four months ago!</p>
<p>Golly, a <a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2146880/" rel="nofollow">celebrity</a> who <a href="http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1589159/20080611/usher.jhtml" rel="nofollow">believes</a>  in <a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=Of90cKxSeuw" rel="nofollow">questionable</a> <a href="http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/15/face-the-nation-gingrich-thinks-scotus-gitmo-decision-could-cost-us-a-city/" rel="nofollow">theories</a>?  *Yawn* Fancy a cuppa tea, then?</p>
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		<title>By: Micah Tillman</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/16/gore-vidal-and-family-guy/#comment-2756</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Tillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=451#comment-2756</guid>
		<description>". . . wields one of the sharpest quills in contemporary American literature." Love it!

*laugh* No, I haven't read any Mailer or Thompson. Not for any particular reason, however. When I think about Mailer, I think about the &lt;em&gt;Rocky and Bullwinkle&lt;/em&gt; episode when they go to college, and a bunch of their fellow students decline to get involved in any "collegiate hijinks" (or some such) because they're going "to the student union to protest Norman Mailer."

&lt;blockquote&gt;Buckley was a homophobic anti-semite who detested the poor . . . .&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Really? We're talking about the Buckley "&lt;a href="http://www.newsweek.com/id/117854/page/4" rel="nofollow"&gt;joked that he would rather be governed by the first 2,000 names in the Boston phone book than by the Harvard faculty&lt;/a&gt;"?

Well, I hope he learned to get over his fear of the same, at least. Phobias are rarely helpful.

Oh, and on that "punch you in the face line," I believe that was his response to being called a "crypto-Nazi." The link you provided was him making fun of himself for losing his temper.

McFarlane is a progressive, isn't he? Are you on a different wavelength from a lot of progressives, or is McFarlane a special case?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;. . . wields one of the sharpest quills in contemporary American literature.&#8221; Love it!</p>
<p>*laugh* No, I haven&#8217;t read any Mailer or Thompson. Not for any particular reason, however. When I think about Mailer, I think about the <em>Rocky and Bullwinkle</em> episode when they go to college, and a bunch of their fellow students decline to get involved in any &#8220;collegiate hijinks&#8221; (or some such) because they&#8217;re going &#8220;to the student union to protest Norman Mailer.&#8221;</p>
<blockquote><p>Buckley was a homophobic anti-semite who detested the poor . . . .</p></blockquote>
<p>Really? We&#8217;re talking about the Buckley &#8220;<a href="http://www.newsweek.com/id/117854/page/4" rel="nofollow">joked that he would rather be governed by the first 2,000 names in the Boston phone book than by the Harvard faculty</a>&#8220;?</p>
<p>Well, I hope he learned to get over his fear of the same, at least. Phobias are rarely helpful.</p>
<p>Oh, and on that &#8220;punch you in the face line,&#8221; I believe that was his response to being called a &#8220;crypto-Nazi.&#8221; The link you provided was him making fun of himself for losing his temper.</p>
<p>McFarlane is a progressive, isn&#8217;t he? Are you on a different wavelength from a lot of progressives, or is McFarlane a special case?</p>
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		<title>By: Seb</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/16/gore-vidal-and-family-guy/#comment-2755</link>
		<dc:creator>Seb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=451#comment-2755</guid>
		<description>I'd actually read the interview before; I was just curious why specifically you don't fancy the fellow. After all, politically &#38; spiritually, you guys are fairly far afield from each other. As an aging progressive leftist, Vidal has a lot to be angry about when surveying the contemporary political landscape, but all apologies aside, &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; delve into his oeuvre. He wields one of the sharpest quills in contemporary American literature.

I also think "cantankerous" and "daft" get a bad rap. (Besides, if you want &lt;i&gt;real&lt;/i&gt; cranks &#38; nutballs, have you picked up any Norman Mailer? Hunter S. Thompson?)

As for Buckley, I'm on Vidal's side: Buckley was a homophobic anti-semite who detested the poor and whose reputation as a leading intellectual hardly befits a man whose stock rebuttal was &lt;a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYymnxoQnf8" rel="nofollow"&gt;"I'll sock you in the face."&lt;/a&gt;

Funny: this is one of the very few times it appears I'm on the same wavelength as Seth McFarlane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d actually read the interview before; I was just curious why specifically you don&#8217;t fancy the fellow. After all, politically &amp; spiritually, you guys are fairly far afield from each other. As an aging progressive leftist, Vidal has a lot to be angry about when surveying the contemporary political landscape, but all apologies aside, <i>do</i> delve into his oeuvre. He wields one of the sharpest quills in contemporary American literature.</p>
<p>I also think &#8220;cantankerous&#8221; and &#8220;daft&#8221; get a bad rap. (Besides, if you want <i>real</i> cranks &amp; nutballs, have you picked up any Norman Mailer? Hunter S. Thompson?)</p>
<p>As for Buckley, I&#8217;m on Vidal&#8217;s side: Buckley was a homophobic anti-semite who detested the poor and whose reputation as a leading intellectual hardly befits a man whose stock rebuttal was <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYymnxoQnf8" rel="nofollow">&#8220;I&#8217;ll sock you in the face.&#8221;</a></p>
<p>Funny: this is one of the very few times it appears I&#8217;m on the same wavelength as Seth McFarlane.</p>
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		<title>By: Micah Tillman</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/16/gore-vidal-and-family-guy/#comment-2754</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Tillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=451#comment-2754</guid>
		<description>Did you read the interview? *grin* He appears to be what we down South call not only "snooty" and "crotchety" (or "cantankerous"), but a bit "off" (or as the Brits say, "daft," or as the PC say, "fringe") as well. 

An old, bitter self-important weirdo is not something I want to become -- and I was so looking forward to learning about him after he got such a glowing portrayal as a high-class intellectual on my beloved &lt;em&gt;Family Guy&lt;/em&gt;.

*sigh*

This is the best part, however:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;How did you feel when you heard that Buckley died this year?&lt;/strong&gt; I thought hell is bound to be a livelier place, as he joins forever those whom he served in life, applauding their prejudices and fanning their hatred.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Reminds one of those, "I hate haters" kind of statements. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you read the interview? *grin* He appears to be what we down South call not only &#8220;snooty&#8221; and &#8220;crotchety&#8221; (or &#8220;cantankerous&#8221;), but a bit &#8220;off&#8221; (or as the Brits say, &#8220;daft,&#8221; or as the PC say, &#8220;fringe&#8221;) as well. </p>
<p>An old, bitter self-important weirdo is not something I want to become &#8212; and I was so looking forward to learning about him after he got such a glowing portrayal as a high-class intellectual on my beloved <em>Family Guy</em>.</p>
<p>*sigh*</p>
<p>This is the best part, however:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>How did you feel when you heard that Buckley died this year?</strong> I thought hell is bound to be a livelier place, as he joins forever those whom he served in life, applauding their prejudices and fanning their hatred.</p></blockquote>
<p>Reminds one of those, &#8220;I hate haters&#8221; kind of statements. :-)</p>
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