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	<title>Comments on: What is Government? pt. 3</title>
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	<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/20/what-is-government-pt-3/</link>
	<description>Philosophy, Politics, Religion, Etc.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Micah Tillman &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What is Government? pt. 4</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/20/what-is-government-pt-3/#comment-2891</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Tillman &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What is Government? pt. 4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=470#comment-2891</guid>
		<description>[...] Part 1 ] [ Part 2 ] [ Part 3 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Part 1 ] [ Part 2 ] [ Part 3 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Micah Tillman</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/20/what-is-government-pt-3/#comment-2884</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Tillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=470#comment-2884</guid>
		<description>Jeff-- 

Excellent points. The question would be whether there are multiple genus/specific-difference definitions which would pick out all governments, and not pick out any non-governments.

If so, then that's great. For instance, "risibility" is something only humans have, even though Aristotelians would list it as a proprium, I think (a property which all humans have necessarily) rather than part of the definition of human. So we could have a definition of humans that went:

Genus: Animal
Specific Difference: Risibility

But Aristotle would claim that risibility depends on rationality, so it's more appropriate to use "rationality" than "risibility" as the specific difference.

I also think you're right that the genus of government is "human group." And I don't think that "government" is a pseudo-concept. Government might be a pseudo-entity (i.e., people may talk about government as being a kind of thing it isn't, if you can even call it an "it"), but I think you can at least come to a rational understanding of what it means for a person to "be in a government."

Andrew--
Sounds right to me. Aristotle was amazingly insightful in many areas, and the genus/specific-difference approach is very helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff&#8211; </p>
<p>Excellent points. The question would be whether there are multiple genus/specific-difference definitions which would pick out all governments, and not pick out any non-governments.</p>
<p>If so, then that&#8217;s great. For instance, &#8220;risibility&#8221; is something only humans have, even though Aristotelians would list it as a proprium, I think (a property which all humans have necessarily) rather than part of the definition of human. So we could have a definition of humans that went:</p>
<p>Genus: Animal<br />
Specific Difference: Risibility</p>
<p>But Aristotle would claim that risibility depends on rationality, so it&#8217;s more appropriate to use &#8220;rationality&#8221; than &#8220;risibility&#8221; as the specific difference.</p>
<p>I also think you&#8217;re right that the genus of government is &#8220;human group.&#8221; And I don&#8217;t think that &#8220;government&#8221; is a pseudo-concept. Government might be a pseudo-entity (i.e., people may talk about government as being a kind of thing it isn&#8217;t, if you can even call it an &#8220;it&#8221;), but I think you can at least come to a rational understanding of what it means for a person to &#8220;be in a government.&#8221;</p>
<p>Andrew&#8211;<br />
Sounds right to me. Aristotle was amazingly insightful in many areas, and the genus/specific-difference approach is very helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Stevens</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/20/what-is-government-pt-3/#comment-2878</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=470#comment-2878</guid>
		<description>Aristotle believed most taxonomies are right or wrong.  He was certainly not a nominalist when it came to universals.  However, he was not a Platonic realist who believed universals had an independent reality.  He was an immanent realist who believed universals exist only in the ordinary spatiotemporal world.  For what it's worth, I regard Aristotle's position as pretty clearly correct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aristotle believed most taxonomies are right or wrong.  He was certainly not a nominalist when it came to universals.  However, he was not a Platonic realist who believed universals had an independent reality.  He was an immanent realist who believed universals exist only in the ordinary spatiotemporal world.  For what it&#8217;s worth, I regard Aristotle&#8217;s position as pretty clearly correct.</p>
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		<title>By: jeffsdeepthoughts</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/20/what-is-government-pt-3/#comment-2872</link>
		<dc:creator>jeffsdeepthoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=470#comment-2872</guid>
		<description>For me, most taxonomies are strictly functional.  I'm wondering if Aristotle would have viewed taxonomies as strictly utilitarian or if he would have thought that some taxonomies were right or wrong based on some sort-of absolute (rather than contextual) criteria.

For example, if preschool teachers were taking their class to the bathroom on a field trip, a taxonomy based on gender would determine who goes into which bathroom.  This taxonomy wouldn't discriminate age.  On the other hand, when they are lined up to enter the place, there will probably be different prices for adults versus children, but not different prices for males verus females.
Accordingly, one taxonomy might have species: Government genus: human groups wielding authority or power.  Other species within the genus: biological familes, religious groups, etc.  The family might be human groups.  The other genus within the family might be human groups not wielding obvious authority or poer.  The species within this genus might be social clubs.
On the other hand, it might not make any sense to group all governments together within the same species at all.  I could imagine a genus based on the idea of "groups that we have the ability to opt out of" and another genus based on the idea "groups that we don't have the ability to opt out of" Modern governments which allowed for citizens to leave (e.g. The U.S) would be species that belong to the former.  Ancient governments or ones that don't allow citizens to leave (E.G. Cuba) would belong to the latter.
Perhaps this was exactly your point: That maybe the category of "government" doesn't hold any water.

I heard a rather interesting argument against religious inlusivism (and for religious exclusivism/particularism) that took a similiar track.
The author made the claim that "Religion" is an incoherent category.  He said it's a modernistic, reductionistic move to lump Hinduism, Christianity, Budhism, Wicca, etc. into the same group.  Given that they don't even belong to the same category the author claimed it's nonsense to claim that they are all doing the same sort of thing and leading to the same sort of place.
(Just for the record, I think he's wrong on some of this: I think you can note enough commanalities between the major world religions to atleast come up with a definition for religion... But it struck me as a really interesting argument.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, most taxonomies are strictly functional.  I&#8217;m wondering if Aristotle would have viewed taxonomies as strictly utilitarian or if he would have thought that some taxonomies were right or wrong based on some sort-of absolute (rather than contextual) criteria.</p>
<p>For example, if preschool teachers were taking their class to the bathroom on a field trip, a taxonomy based on gender would determine who goes into which bathroom.  This taxonomy wouldn&#8217;t discriminate age.  On the other hand, when they are lined up to enter the place, there will probably be different prices for adults versus children, but not different prices for males verus females.<br />
Accordingly, one taxonomy might have species: Government genus: human groups wielding authority or power.  Other species within the genus: biological familes, religious groups, etc.  The family might be human groups.  The other genus within the family might be human groups not wielding obvious authority or poer.  The species within this genus might be social clubs.<br />
On the other hand, it might not make any sense to group all governments together within the same species at all.  I could imagine a genus based on the idea of &#8220;groups that we have the ability to opt out of&#8221; and another genus based on the idea &#8220;groups that we don&#8217;t have the ability to opt out of&#8221; Modern governments which allowed for citizens to leave (e.g. The U.S) would be species that belong to the former.  Ancient governments or ones that don&#8217;t allow citizens to leave (E.G. Cuba) would belong to the latter.<br />
Perhaps this was exactly your point: That maybe the category of &#8220;government&#8221; doesn&#8217;t hold any water.</p>
<p>I heard a rather interesting argument against religious inlusivism (and for religious exclusivism/particularism) that took a similiar track.<br />
The author made the claim that &#8220;Religion&#8221; is an incoherent category.  He said it&#8217;s a modernistic, reductionistic move to lump Hinduism, Christianity, Budhism, Wicca, etc. into the same group.  Given that they don&#8217;t even belong to the same category the author claimed it&#8217;s nonsense to claim that they are all doing the same sort of thing and leading to the same sort of place.<br />
(Just for the record, I think he&#8217;s wrong on some of this: I think you can note enough commanalities between the major world religions to atleast come up with a definition for religion&#8230; But it struck me as a really interesting argument.)</p>
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		<title>By: Micah Tillman &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Varieties of Choice, and Whether Christians Can Be For Them</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/20/what-is-government-pt-3/#comment-2845</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Tillman &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Varieties of Choice, and Whether Christians Can Be For Them</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=470#comment-2845</guid>
		<description>[...] Gene Chase, my academic adviser and mentor from my undergraduate days, pointed out to me that my friend from the same era, Anthony DeRosa, has written up some thoughts that are rather [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gene Chase, my academic adviser and mentor from my undergraduate days, pointed out to me that my friend from the same era, Anthony DeRosa, has written up some thoughts that are rather [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Micah Tillman</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/20/what-is-government-pt-3/#comment-2832</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Tillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=470#comment-2832</guid>
		<description>Thanks! Will do. I was just thinking about Anthony and Prisca the other day for some reason. I can't remember why at the moment. Maybe because they're awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks! Will do. I was just thinking about Anthony and Prisca the other day for some reason. I can&#8217;t remember why at the moment. Maybe because they&#8217;re awesome.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Chase</title>
		<link>http://micahtillman.com/2008/06/20/what-is-government-pt-3/#comment-2831</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Chase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://micahtillman.com/?p=470#comment-2831</guid>
		<description>I like your take on the potential legality same-sex marriage.  My son-in-law arrives at a 
&lt;a href="http://ransomed.us/wordpress/category/thoughts/" rel="nofollow"&gt;similar conclusion&lt;/a&gt; by another route.  Check it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your take on the potential legality same-sex marriage.  My son-in-law arrives at a<br />
<a href="http://ransomed.us/wordpress/category/thoughts/" rel="nofollow">similar conclusion</a> by another route.  Check it out.</p>
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